User talk:Andrevan

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Hi Andrevan, I was thinking of you recently when puzzling over why the excellent article that you wrote most of, Modern Jewish historiography, still receives so few daily page views. I haven't figured out an answer yet.

Thank you for sharing the article from Daniel B. Schwartz; he writes beautifully. Despite his experience and credentials, he fell into the common trap of conflating the question of peoplehood versus religion. His article about Jewish peoplehood crescendos with the 16th century quote from Solomon ibn Verga: "Lord of the universe! Although you are doing much to make me abandon my religion, know for certain that, despite the heavenly hosts, a Jew I am, and a Jew will I remain, and nothing you have brought or will yet bring upon me will help you!" which is explicitly about the protangonist's religious belief. Application of a nationalist mindset to a pre-modern quotation is a good example of the presentism fallacy.

I hope you are well, and hope we can find another topic to collaborate on soon. Onceinawhile (talk) 07:59, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi Andrevan, thanks for your response, and for your interesting and constructive challenge.

I have made some small edits to Sefer ha-Qabbalah and Iggeret of Rabbi Sherira Gaon, as well as fixed the context of the sentence you mentioned in Modern Jewish historiography.

To respond to some of your comments:

• "An exception to the Hegelian German view of historical national formation perhaps which insists that nationalism is a modern concept." I have seen this view before, and find it to be a jarring form of exceptionalism. Consistent with other forms of exceptionalism, it does not stand up to scrutiny, falling over on (a) the dual translation of the historical term Ioudaios and its semitic cognates, and (b) the evolution of modern thought based on the flawed racial conceptions of Jewish identity in Zionism
• I just read through the Sefer ha-Qabbalah paragraphs you mentioned. That history is no different to, for example, the Pauline epistles, and is the very basis of how global religious communities were originally created. Early Christian diaspora communities were a mix of immigrants and converts, and the same is true for early Jewish diaspora communities, despite the latter being deemphasized in modern nationalist-influenced histories. Onceinawhile (talk) 08:51, 2 August 2024 (UTC)